For this special bonus episode, Jen talks with WNBA star, Brittney Griner, who shares her powerful story of resilience after she was wrongfully detained in Russian prisons for nearly a year. Brittney provides a heartbreaking firsthand account of the inhumane conditions she endured, from the lack of legal rights and translators to cruel psychological tactics by guards. She opens up about the pivotal role her faith played in giving her mental strength to survive.
Brittney also discusses the ongoing trauma she has faced since returning home, and the renewed sense of motivation to use her voice and platform to advocate for other detainees abroad still seeking freedom. 
Jen and Brittney discuss:

Griner's harrowing account of being imprisoned in Russia and how she’s fighting to get more US prisoners home

The pivotal role her faith and reading the Bible played in giving her strength to survive mentally and emotionally.

Her candid discussion of the ongoing trauma she's working through since returning to the U.S.

Her optimism about the WNBA's rising popularity to force meaningful change in addressing the glaring pay gap with men's basketball.


Thought-Provoking Quotes:
"My biggest fear was the fear of being forgotten." - Brittney Griner
"We feel like we're in control a lot in our everyday lives. But being over there, I was in a place where I needed help. I couldn't control anything. It was out of my hands. I had to rely on something, or I would have gone crazy...I would have Bible study on Sundays and I think that's what got me through, honestly." - Brittney Griner
"We need everybody to buy into [the WNBA]. We need to challenge companies to stop just checking a box and saying, 'Oh, we fight for equality. We had a month. We had some shirts.' That's a step. But we need you to put dollars down to make a difference." - Brittney Griner
Resources Mentioned in this Bonus Episode: 
Caitlin Clark - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Clark
“It Gets Better Project” - https://bit.ly/4al2EaZ
Coming Home by Brittney Griner - https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Home-Brittney-Griner/dp/0593801342
Guest Link:
Website - https://wearebg.org/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/brittneyyevettegriner
Twitter - https://twitter.com/brittneygriner
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BrittneyGriner
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
 
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[BONUS] A Year Lost and Found: Brittney Griner's Story of Survival

Welcome to the For the Love Podcast community. New York Times Bestselling author Jen Hatmaker’s life’s work is to lead and serve women as they genuinely show up for their own lives. In these conversations we need not fear the truth, or hard questions, or spiritual curiosity, or challenging unjust systems; that is literally why we are here, and we’re so glad you’ve joined us. We believe women living in freedom are the answer to all that ails society. When we are exactly who we are, how we are, where we are, as we were always meant to be, women are the 8th wonders of the world. For the love of all that is good, right, wrong, hard, fun, perplexing, wondrous and thought-provoking, Jen’s here for it all with eye-opening conversations with some of the best people on earth.

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In this episode of the Matriarchy series, we explore how deeply ingrained patriarchal narratives can create a policing effect on the behavior of women. 
Author, Elise Loehnen, discusses her book "On Our Best Behavior" which examines how concepts like the seven deadly sins have historically been used to restrict women's behavior and police their adherence to an idealized form of "goodness." Loehnen unpacks the insidious ways women are culturally conditioned from a young age to suppress normal human drives like anger, ambition, and sexuality. And how disrupting rigid gender stereotypes is important when raising the next generation in order to build a more compassionate world. 
Jen and Elise discuss:

How women are culturally conditioned and expected to embody "goodness" while men are oriented toward power 

How concepts like the "seven deadly sins" have historically been used as a patriarchal "punch card" to police women's behavior

Why raising boys to have an emotional inner life nurtures positive identity development

The current era of politics that calls for women to challenge the patriarchal system while also having compassionate dialogue to build a new, care-centered world where everyone can flourish

* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“Women are trained for goodness and men are trained for power.” - Elise Loehnen
“The worst thing for a woman is reputational harm--just the assigning of her badness. Bad mother. Toxic coworker. Toxic boss. Unkind. She says the wrong thing. And it's sort of impossible to defend yourself against that. We have zero tolerance, and it's very scary.” - Elise Loehnen
"We need a culture where the men are like, 'I would like to be more like women. I need to be caring. I want to be nurturing and creative. And yes, I can be strong and I can be masculine, but I also need this underdeveloped muscle.'" - Elise Loehnen
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
On Our Best Behavior by Elise Loehnen - https://bit.ly/44tz41D
Goop - https://goop.com
For the Love of Being Seen and Heard ft. Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/4b8YT9C
Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/3JO7FOn
Evagrius Ponticus (Fourth Century Christian Monk) - https://bit.ly/4b7zEV5
Pope Gregory on the 7 Deadly Sins - https://bit.ly/3y1J1XK
Harvey Weinstein Abuse Cases - https://bit.ly/4b5ktM5
Carol Gilligan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Gilligan
In a Different Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3JQ9IBh  
Human Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3UQ1Rcn
Andrew Tate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Tate
Order, Disorder, Reorder (An idea Developed by Richard Rohr) - https://bit.ly/44xzHqK
For the Love of The Enneagram ft. Richard Rohr - https://bit.ly/3QzzZaW
Loretta Ross - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta_Ross
Guest’s Links:
Elise’s Website - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/
Elise’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/eliseloehnen/
Elise’s Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/eloehnen
Elise’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/EliseLoehnen/
Elise’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/elise-loehnen-b867523/
Pulling the Thread (Elise’s Stubstack Blog) - https://eliseloehnen.substack.com/
Pulling the Thread (Elise’s Podcast) - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/episodes
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
 
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On Our Best Behavior: Elise Loehnen Pushes Back on the Patriarchal Narrative

Jen and Isabel Allende discuss her novel, Violeta, and why Allende makes her bold choices in characters, events, and settings. Allende shares her fascinating personal background - born in Peru, living as a refugee, and eventually immigrating to the U.S. where she began her writing career.

Allende explains how Violeta's story was inspired by her own mother's life and letters, which Allende has meticulously preserved over decades. The author discusses how Violeta's complicated romantic relationships and experiences of political upheaval mirror Allende's own life.

Particularly compelling moments include:


Allende's description and showing of the extensive archive of her mother's letters

The author's insights on the challenges women writers face, having to work harder than men to achieve respect

Allende's personal experiences with family tragedy that informed the novel

The author's delight in crafting the "villain" character of Julián, as well as the beloved nanny character based on Allende's own housekeeper


Overall, you’ll hear a dynamic conversation between Jen and Isabel on life, love, and loss. 

Novel Summary:
The novel follows the life of Violeta, who is born in 1920 in the aftermath of World War I and the onset of Spanish flu pandemic. The story traces Violeta's tumultuous life as she navigates historic events, including the Great Depression forcing her family into poverty and a relocation to a remote part of their South American homeland.

Structured through a series of letters Violeta writes to her grandson, the narrative portrays her resilience, passion, and humor against the backdrop of major 20th century historical events and upheavals, including women's rights struggles. The story arcs through Violeta's experiences of love, heartbreak, and the ebb and flow of wealth, set against the sweeping historical context of an unnamed South American country.
* * *
Guest’s Links:
Isabel’s Website - https://www.isabelallende.com/en 
Isabel’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/allendeisabel/ 
Isabel’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/isabellallende
Isabel’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/isabelallende/ 

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
List of Isabel’s Books - https://www.isabelallende.com/en/books 
Violeta by Isabel Allende - ​​https://www.isabelallende.com/en/book/violeta 
James by Percival Everett - https://www.amazon.com/James-Novel-Percival-Everett/dp/0385550367 

Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ 
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ 
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
 
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
  
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[BONUS] Jen Hatmaker Book Club ft. Violeta by Isabel Allende

Continuing In our For the Love of The Matriarchy series, Jen talks with powerful women who are taking innovative approaches to their work, their relationships, and their joy. Bozoma Saint John is a trailblazing marketing executive whose career has taken her to the heights of companies like Pepsi, Apple, Uber and Netflix. But her path to becoming a "badass" has been one marked by profound loss and upheaval. 
From the loss of her first child and her husband's battle with cancer, to being told she's "too much" by those closest to her, Bozoma opens up about summoning resilience from life's lowest lows. She discusses redefining what true strength looks like, embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo, and pioneering a collaborative model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice.

Jen and Bozoma discuss:

Embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo and offends those in power

Redefining strength not as impenetrable toughness, but as the pliability in experiencing brokenness yet still rising again

The complexities of reconciling life's tragedies with its gifts and holding space for gratitude amid loss

Pioneering a collaborative, trust-based model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice and needs


For anyone craving inspiration to honor their scars while uncompromisingly claiming their power, this is a master class.
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“Privilege is a reliable enemy of equality. And it is sometimes insidious the lengths we’ll go to protect it because we're still benefiting [from it].” - Bozoma Saint John
"You don't have to have had the same losses I've had or suffered the same way I suffered to prove that you are worthy of the scars that you bear. You have them and it's okay." - Bozoma Saint John
“My parenting has changed because I need to make space for [my daughter] to be honest with me about what she needs so that I can be the mother that she needs; not necessarily the mother that I think is needed.” - Bozoma Saint John
"The most amazing thing about being human is how incredibly tied we are to each other. And it is a beautiful thing that even through our pain, we are still tied together as human beings." - Bozoma Saint John
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Bozoma’s Marketing Hall of Fame Induction: https://marketinghalloffame.org/inductees-leading-marketers/bozoma-saint-john-2022-marketing-inductee/
2021 Most Influential CMO: https://www.forbes.com/connect/event/2021-wmi-cmos/
Ambassador to the African Diaspora and Special Envoy to the President of Ghana: https://bit.ly/4bhmVig.
Guest’s Links:
Bozoma’s Website: https://www.bozomasaintjohn.com/
Bozoma’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaintBoz
Bozoma’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/badassboz
Bozoma’s Instagram: http://instagram.com/badassboz
Bozoma’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bozoma-saint-john-0305441/
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
 
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
  
 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summoning Resilience In Our Darkest Times: Bozoma Saint John on Loss and Motherhood

Welcome to the For The Love of The Matriarchy series where we’ll explore all the different aspects of women working to embrace agency and celebrating their worth. As we celebrate the power of women and their accomplishments, we’ll also look at the challenges women have faced in a patriarchal society (and still face) and what that means for their bodies and autonomy. 

Cait West is an author who grew up in an extreme patriarchal Christian community. She was taught from a young age that her sole purpose was to become a submissive wife and mother. This pervasive sense of having no agency or control over her own life, combined with the constant messaging that she was inherently sinful and unworthy, took a profound toll on Cait's mental health, causing severe anxiety and depression from a very young age. Jen and Cait delve into how families can fall into toxic belief systems, and what recovery can look like.
Jen and Cait discuss:


The impact of being raised in a fundamentalist, patriarchal environment that severely restricts a woman's autonomy, education, and life choices.

The healing power of finding community, sharing one's story, and reclaiming agency after experiencing spiritual abuse and trauma.

The difficult but important choice of breaking free from oppressive systems, even when it means severing ties with your own family


* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
"[My husband] has always been my steady companion because he experienced some of that verbal abuse from my dad, and he knew what it was like...When I would have anxiety attacks, he didn't understand what was going on either, but he would just sit with me until I could get through it and come back to regulate my nervous system. He just was there with me through it. And that meant more than having someone try to fix it or totally tell me what to do." - Cait West
"I realized I had a story to tell. Going to writing conferences and learning from other writers like you who were talking about speaking up for injustice, I decided to tell part of my story online. I started doing that around 2018 and realized there's a lot more people who've been through this and they've just been silenced or afraid — people who if they say something, their family's going to cut them off. That's what happened to me in 2019. I had an interview and I started talking online about my experience and my dad decided not to talk to me anymore. I understand that fear but once I lost that relationship, I felt liberated to tell my story. Because somebody has to. Somebody has to say something." - Cait West
"Cait's my real first name, and then West is my grandmother's — what we call the maiden name. It's always resonated with me, my mother's heritage, because they're Southerners, they grew up in poverty. The women in my family have always been the leaders and the strong people of faith. And so to me, it's kind of like calling back to that heritage and recognizing it and trying to hold on to some kind of legacy after losing so much of my life." - Cait West
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Christian Patriarchy Movement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_patriarchy
Tears of Eden (Nonprofit for survivors of spiritual abuse - https://www.tearsofeden.org/
Rift: A Memoir by Cait West - https://www.caitwest.com/book
Guest’s Links:
Website - https://www.caitwest.com/
Twitter - https://bit.ly/3UytS9l
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/caitwestwrites/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/caitwestwrites/?hl=en
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@caitwestwrites
Substack - https://caitwest.substack.com/
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ 
 
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
  
 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

[BONUS] A Year Lost and Found: Brittney Griner's Story of Survival

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